tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post2459568151036556583..comments2023-08-08T08:06:21.781-05:00Comments on Long Live Locke.: Fate vs. Free WillErika (aka "e")http://www.blogger.com/profile/17051946388926947935noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-37686580388832661242011-04-13T15:19:44.447-05:002011-04-13T15:19:44.447-05:00e - love your work. I think you got the Fate/Free...e - love your work. I think you got the Fate/Freewill idea just right. If the finale had focussed on these issues, instead of just saying "ho hum, we're done, trot out the Deus ex Machina and roll credits" I would have been very happy.<br /><br />Hurley, now there's an interesting thought. Perhaps Fate gave a hand in overcoming the difficulties our pal Hugo faced in getting to the airport on time. maybe, oh this is delish, there is a J fate and a MIB fate, vying to get the folks there or not-there.<br /><br />My brain reels.hatch-mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-82180503610301493962011-04-05T09:25:36.229-05:002011-04-05T09:25:36.229-05:00I've been logging on every day to read a new p...I've been logging on every day to read a new post, and it was worth it. Well said w Gyll.<br /><br />What I've been trying to get my head round, and I hope this is still in realm of Fate vs Free Will, is the MIB's plan to get a dead Locke to come back to the island.<br /><br />I understand, why Ben Killed Locke so he could go back to the island and become leader again, and the only way to do this was to try and recreate the same circumstances as the 815 flight. Whether this is true or not, who knows?<br /><br />But Ben only new this because Eloise told him. How did MIB get Eloise to tell Ben this?GARRY UKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-56535890263747207192011-04-05T02:48:45.906-05:002011-04-05T02:48:45.906-05:00I think you can be "meant" to do somethi...I think you can be "meant" to do something, or "supposed" to be someone, and choose not to or be it. Because you have been mislead, because you made a choice, because evil forces worked against your full realisation.<br /><br />That's why I like to think that Locke was supposed to be the real savior and leader. The task was just to difficult and overwhelming. So fate/destiny, which is different from fatalism, found another way by putting the weight on Jack's shoulder.<br /><br />It seems that there is a goal set for certain persons, but that interactions and choices to go there are left undecided.<br /><br />One could argue that Locke failed to grasp the difficulty of the task and was easy to manipulate. He chose not to go to the science camp, etc. ... His previous failures that prepared him for the leading role also made too eager and not careful enough.<br /><br />I could be born to be a surgeon and save someone important for the whole world. But, out of laziness, I chose to do something else. Chances are, the friend I talked to about becoming a surgeon being too difficult will be the guy who saved the person.<br /><br />Fate, juste like nature, always find a way.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932845666069108239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-75617951530352551502011-03-18T08:44:34.708-05:002011-03-18T08:44:34.708-05:00I'm a little late to the party, but I'm gl...I'm a little late to the party, but I'm glad you've started writing these. I only found your site mid-way through the last season. Unlike notWalt, I can't get enough LOST talk.<br /><br />I don't have much to say, I'll probably just lurk. But thanks for putting the work in for us lurkers!MarcGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-3472589942837927052011-03-07T02:00:25.611-06:002011-03-07T02:00:25.611-06:00I too have to confess, I'm saving up to buy th...I too have to confess, I'm saving up to buy the box set, and sadly can't remember the details from early on that you have mentioned, e.kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03264738361069401218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-82744667051180864352011-03-04T10:54:09.796-06:002011-03-04T10:54:09.796-06:00Here's my sad confession: I can't summon ...Here's my sad confession: I can't summon the energy to slog through the open issues or mysteries of Lost.<br /><br />I loved the show and generally liked the End. I read dozens of the recaps and many of the discussions. And I was happy that e eventually posted her thoughts on the final episode.<br /><br />I was even looking forward to this revived discussion.<br /><br />But now that it's here, I am a bit surprised that I can't motivate myself to think deeply about the show. Maybe I am just burned out on Lost. Maybe I got enough answers and just need to let go. Maybe I'll get refreshed and want to dive back in.<br /><br />After the end, I really thought that I would want to rewatch the entire series from the beginning. I haven't and I'm not sure when I will or even if I will. I hope I do.<br /><br />I know that the Lost experience will likely never be matched for me. But for now, I'm just a bit saddened to have lost the passion (at least for now).notWaltnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-21602470256580754082011-02-28T09:28:51.735-06:002011-02-28T09:28:51.735-06:00Christian does tell Michael that it is time to go ...Christian does tell Michael that it is time to go when the freighter blew up, but then again, Michael didn't "go" did he? He became a whisper on the Island.GARRY UKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-29916152161283365562011-02-27T13:35:34.393-06:002011-02-27T13:35:34.393-06:00Does everyone get told, "It's time to let...Does everyone get told, "It's time to let go," right before they die? I'm watching for the 5th or 6th time (I've lost count)and noticed John told Boone this after the "drug paste" experience and ep or 2 before he dies. That's my new assignment.<br /><br />Lorilooskilorilooskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14433501310238556328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-42408630275562240742011-02-25T07:24:36.539-06:002011-02-25T07:24:36.539-06:00Great great topic!
I do not think it was entirely...Great great topic!<br /><br />I do not think it was entirely fate, I think there is a bit of both playing out here. <br /><br />That is what makes the show so fantastic. We couldn't be told all the mysteries of the island upfront because we wouldn't believe them. <br /><br />Just like Jacob couldn't just travel over to Jack (pre crash) and say to him, hey you are a potential candidate to save an island from a destructive cloud of smoke.<br /><br />Over the hundreds of years since smokey was released, Jacob and MIB were trying everything they could to win. <br /><br />Compare the Black Rock to 815? There were hundreds of people on the ship but only one man worth keeping alive <br />However Jacob got the equivalent of a lottery win when 815 crashed. <br /><br />I reckon that any one of the names round the "wheel of fortune" could have ended up being saviour and protector, however the candidates were whittled down through free will choices to be Jack and Hurley. <br /><br />This is only my opinion :-)GARRYUKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-6914150746479993522011-02-23T16:05:40.347-06:002011-02-23T16:05:40.347-06:00Marc -
Nope, Hurley always had a ticket for 815....Marc - <br /><br />Nope, Hurley always had a ticket for 815. There was no flight he missed.<br /><br />http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hurley<br /><br />- eErika (aka "e")https://www.blogger.com/profile/17051946388926947935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-38325031476068522612011-02-23T16:00:37.940-06:002011-02-23T16:00:37.940-06:00Hey E,
Not to nitpick or anything and maybe my me...Hey E,<br /><br />Not to nitpick or anything and maybe my memory is a little off here, but didn't all the delays that Hurley faced pre-airport force him to miss his original flight, which pushed him on to 815 in the first place. That might mean that fate did intervine to get Hurley on the flight to become island protector. I recall him watching his plane fly over his head from where he was with the flat tire then he runs in the airport talks to the bitchy oceanic lady who books him two seats on the flight and says something like oh dear you might miss this flight too its in the international terminal across the airport. Then he has to run to catch it. What do you think? If you feel like revisiting the scene and letting me know I would love to see if i remember correctly or not. <br /><br />MarcMarchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15649038384369415271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-67172414787227747902011-02-21T22:07:56.804-06:002011-02-21T22:07:56.804-06:00Was it really "fate" trying to stop Hurl...Was it really "fate" trying to stop Hurley from getting on the plane? Perhaps because Hurley was so special, and The Island was calling him so strongly, the opposite force (evil/darkness/MIB?) was working extra hard to keep him away. Hence the alarm clock, the car breaking down, his dad coming back, etc.<br /><br />And Hurley was not the only one who faced roadblocks in coming to The Island. Remember that Sayid was booked for another flight, but switched to 815 at the last minute. Same goes for Kate, and Claire, and Sawyer . . . With all of them it seemed a force was pulling them in two directions, but the pull from The Island was stronger. I imagine or believe that's because the forces of goodness/light are stronger than the opposing force. <br /><br />I'm with you Erica, on imaging the different kind of leader that Hurley became. I doubt he was popping back and forth all the time . . . The Island was pretty demanding, but I imagine that he did visits his folks at least a few times, and I've always liked to imagine that he came back to tell Kate about Jack, knowing that if he didn't she'd try to come back (you know Kate, she can't live with anyone getting left behind).Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03827736335365628937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-5304493683844161362011-02-21T08:47:51.419-06:002011-02-21T08:47:51.419-06:00excellent topic.
Perhaps Hurley had to make the c...excellent topic.<br /><br />Perhaps Hurley had to make the choice to get on board, and later, Jacob gave him the choice to come back, because he was ultimately destined to be the island's protector. Jacob had to manipulate everyone else into making the choice to come back, but Hurley was the only one who was asked to come back, if he wanted to. <br /><br />I believe we have many, many hints that Hurley was "special" in that he had a connection to the island that was clear from very early on, and because he was the only one who (was allowed to) independently decided to come back.JShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06219841452322761803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-45215589022006800392011-02-21T04:36:38.200-06:002011-02-21T04:36:38.200-06:00Jack was also desperate to get on the plane. Locke...Jack was also desperate to get on the plane. Locke was a bit annoyed when he thought he'd have to get another flight as well!<br /><br />I think the reason Hurley went through all that he did with running late for the flight was to cement his feelings that he was cursed. It must be really annoying to think that you tried so hard to catch a flight only for it to end up crashing! And I think that this contributed to the turnaround in Hurley's character that we start to see when he mends the campervan: taking note of what makes him lucky rather than thinking he's cursed.<br /><br />As for him becoming the Island's protector I agree that it's inherent in Hurley to make people feel better, safer, happier. When he built the golf course Jack said (paraphrasing) "I haven't eaten, haven't slept, because I've wanted people to feel safe. Hurley builds a golf course, everybody feels safe". And that's it really. Jack is great at saving people, whereas Hurley is great at making people feel safe. Once Jack had 'saved' the Island his ability was no longer needed.niknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-46394820612971404062011-02-20T18:41:22.218-06:002011-02-20T18:41:22.218-06:00Two thoughts, Erica:
1.) There may be a way to re...Two thoughts, Erica:<br /><br />1.) There may be a way to reconcile the fate vs. free will debate. Let's look at it this way: Fate (or God, or the Island)<br />does indeed predestine people. However, He/She/It doesn't look for specific people, but rather for specific TYPES of people, to bequeath a particular life path to.<br /><br />And the "type" of person we become is determined by us. Our freely chosen actions make us who we are, either attracting or repelling the attention of whatever Force is out there.<br />Hence our free choices determine which pathway Fate chooses for us.<br /><br />2.) Re: Hurley, one thing I noted is how his becoming the Island's protector fit in perfectly with the overall theme of the show, which IMO was sacrifice. Look at it this way: nobody got what they wanted, not in this life anyway. For example, Locke, who desperately wanted Jacob's job, not only didn't get it, He was used by it's greatest enemy.<br />Conversely, Hurley, who specifically said he did not want the job, ended up with it.<br /><br />One question the show explored was the price that we must pay as individuals if we want to be heroes, to make a difference. Those poor souls literally gave up everything precious to them in life. Is that the cost every aspiring hero must ultimately pay?billhttp://www.christandplato.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20981436.post-56138789149552095402011-02-20T18:36:48.656-06:002011-02-20T18:36:48.656-06:00I love what you wrote about Jack/Christian and als...I love what you wrote about Jack/Christian and also Hurley---differences in what their separate "fates" held for them . . . and yes, how interesting it was that Hurley had to overcome the most in order to get on board. I always thought of it as just kind of proving what a good, loving son he was, in spite of his parents being flawed and obviously not perfect --Hurley always was so tender and respectful to everyone (which completely validates Ben's pep-talk after Hurley becomes New Man in Charge (do what you do best, take care of people). Hurley was probably the most considerate one on the island--<br />1. giving Claire an extra meal on the first night<br />2. making the golf course because people were stressed out<br />3. telling the tv crew (after winning the lottery) how his grandpa was finally going to get to take a vacation after working 3 jobs forever<br />4. loyally sticking up for Charlie after his death, and so on.<br /><br />Hurley cares about people; it's part of his innocence and goodness, what made him HIM. I think he was always meant to get to the island because of this, *caring* so much about his mother's birthday; I dare say Jacob or the island would have counted on it as such a person would be the ideal protector after Jack did what he needed to do. . .Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01070730445523597957noreply@blogger.com